The following is a transcript of my chat with Kohji from my upcoming zine for Mixed Blood Manifesto. This discussion took place some time ago, in the early days of the project (and pandemic) – we jumped right into it, likely after recording an episode of our podcast.

Andrew: Cool! So you’ve mentioned you see yourself as half-Japanese, half-Canadian when pressed by someone (like myself) to describe your background. I recall you mentioning that doesn’t exactly square with how you self-identify – is that how you feel internally?

Kohji: If we’re being truthful and really self-examining, I really see myself as just a person. It’s probably because I haven’t had much issue due to my background that it’s not a consideration. Rarely have I noticed anyone treating me differently. Either because I’m oblivious – or privileged. In my day-to-day thought I don’t think of myself as anything other than me. Not Asian or Jewish or anything.

A: Yeah, fair enough. I mean, that’s sort of the holy grail in my mind…my follow-up was going to be “Have you found yourself put in any compromising positions where code-switching or this labelling presented a specific issue” but you basically answered that already.

I’ve definitely experienced discrimination, which I think is largely due to my visibly darker skin tone, but I feel like the environment I was raised in allows me the luxury of a bit more mental flexibility in regards to how I respond…

Do you think it’s similar for you?

And by that I mean, do you feel like there’s ever been pressure from your family to adhere to a certain set of cultural norms?

Kohji: Maybe a little. My dad never really cared too much about raising me with religion. He had pride about Japan and wanted me to appreciate the culture and country, but never drilled into me that I was Japanese or even different.

My mom raised me with a sense of being Jewish. But we’re never religious. We did the holiday stuff more as a cultural and family oriented thing. Just a good reason to get the extended family together.

A: True. Yeah that’s an aspect that was never a factor for me – faith or religion, even a generational practice. I frequently forget about Jewish traditions with you guys haha even after years…definitely not broadcasted for any other reason other than for gatherings.

I do think, especially recently, that the best thing religion can do is bring people together in that way, but it’s kind of unfortunate how, like other types of identity, it can sort of be twisted, misrepresented, or used in an exclusionary way.

Here’s one we never really talked about before that’s more relevant now – now that you’re a dad, has it changed how you feel about any of these ideas of cultural legacy? I mean, obviously you’ve just stated you see yourself as a ‘person’ first, but I hear so many other parents cite heritage as something that is vitally important to them to pass on. I’m curious if there’s anything you now feel is important to infuse, share, or otherwise expose lil Ton’ to?

Kohji: I mean yes and no. I want her to experience Japan. But in the same way that I want you to do it or anyone else. It’s an interesting, amazing place. But she’ll have the added connection of family.

Otherwise there’s not much I want her to do. Other than be an Olympic climber.

But we’ll do the Jewish thing too, but probably more just to see family. Elyse’s mom is big on Toni having a Jewish name but that’s truly meaningless to me.

A: Right.

It’s really interesting to me, because I know you well, but it really comes across different – you know how I feel about Japan, I know how you feel about Japan – but maybe that’s why it sounds less narrow-minded?

I mean, I think a lot of people, regardless of background, everywhere in the world, run on automatic a lot of the time.

So you know, passing on the ideas of cultural heritage is almost reflexive, and I imagine if they really thought about what’s in the best interest for future generations, it would involve a bit more freedom from that…

But it’s really hard once people start calcifying into this idea of what defines them. And they sort of pass it along.

Anyway, that makes sense. My folks bought me books and poetry by slaves, and educated me on sort of high-level aspects of black history, but they also really encouraged my love of things like Japan. So it feels totally impartial. They just let me sort of figure it out for myself.

Ok, last question for now: inclusivity. This is like the most loaded question. Have you ever felt, maybe especially when you were younger, excluded from participating in or accomplishing anything? I mean, we like SO much of the same stuff, I think I know the answer, but I’m still curious. For example, film, music, or gaming…

Kohji: Not that I can recall. It may be because I’m an only child, but I’ve always just done what I wanted.

Either that or I have a selective memory. But I was also always drawn to activities that didn’t really involve others – learning guitar wasn’t about playing in a band ’til later.

A: Yeah, same. But like you were never sitting there watching Big Trouble In Little China going “Yo, how come Kurt Russell is the hero and the villain is an Asian?” or conversely “Yo, the Matrix is sick because the protagonist is part Asian – like me!”
It’s a crude comparison, and obviously the conversation is a lot more complicated in a lot of ways, but like the idea you couldn’t make rock music because you had few points of reference that reflected your ethnic background?

Kohji: Short answer, no. I always identified with whoever the hero was. Me and my dad were big fans of The Last Samurai where the hero’s not even an Asian person. It wasn’t even a consideration for me. I watch a movie and I’m not like ‘oh, that’s a woman, that’s a black man, that’s a latino’, or whatever…in the 90’s when all the sitcom people were white, I wasn’t like, ‘all the characters are white’, I was like Ryan Reynolds on two guys a girl and a pizza place is a sarcastic asshole, I like him.

A: Alright, thanks for the chat man. We could definitely go deeper on all these topics but for now…I’ll see you on that game where I play a vaguely South-Asian Brit and you play a Vaguely Latino adrenaline junkie and no one’s the wiser…